welcome back to Affiliated everybody
thank you for joining and listening to
wherever you’re from we always love to
hear about how and where you listen I am
Thomas McMahon with ClickBank and
joining me is Kyle and his Halloween por
costume thanks KY yeah I figured you
know we should do something to tell
people that today is Halloween but we
probably won’t maintain for the whole
episode as well in case the pork mask
was enough I did make sure wear my metal
sweater today even though it’s boy
Genius which is hardly metal at all but
still has a devil on it so spooky season
is here be really curious to see when
this episode drops and it’s not close to
Halloween yeah it’s in January and we
decided to do this but that’s okay
people know that we record these at a
different time now hooray yes um so but
with that we have some pretty awesome
guests today who aren’t spooky unless
you’re making some spooky Kick-Ass
videos and I already swore and we’ve
made it one minute in so H but I’ll let
you introduce yes we’ve got Peter zimus
and stepan Banica from C4 media joining
us from is it meden or you in Boga or
somewhere else we’re in Medan right now
medin Colombia well thanks for joining
guys gosh you said that so cool Thomas
and say right medalin medalin is what I
think I think it’s actually Medan Medan
oh
there yeah yeah
Medan like that I made an Italian for
some reason but I’ve only ever ched it
with xats from there who all say it
slightly differently so I’ve picked it
up
I took a best guess well nice well
thanks for joining guys we’re still to
dive into kind of what’s working now in
video advertising but I’d love to kick
it off with you and Peter and Stephan
like how did y’all meet and how did C4
get
started yeah um I can tell the story if
you want yeah you tell the story it’s
funnier from your perspective yeah um so
started I mean I met Stephen probably
about a year and a half ago in Toronto
uh I have my dog brand pup Labs which
we’ve been scaling and I wanted to shoot
some content for the brand and Stefan
was doing a lot of like video reels and
shorts with some really big names
including like Heros Peterson some just
like the biggest internet marketers uh
kinobody as well and so we met in
Toronto and I was like Stefan you know
come do shoot with me uh so we spent
three days together and then I’m like
this guy is an absolute gangster and
basically I moved to Colombia and then I
convinced him to move to Columbia leave
all his clients and come work only for
me and then we launched the video
production company later on that must
been a strong sell
yeah has it has it been good Stefan or
do you regret that fully I mean if I
regretted it I wouldn’t be in Columbia
six months later like hilarious the way
it went was like I was like doing a
sales gig uh I wasn’t really making the
cash I wanted I wasn’t really making
money didn’t really enjoy it it was kind
of like I’m like H I really kind of
regret this job and I’m like and Peter’s
like hey dude you want to come to
Columbia and help me shoot a vsl next
week I’m like hm I’ve never been to
Colombia I don’t speak Spanish I don’t
look Colombian yeah why not I go week
later in Columbia and then he’s like
yeah we don’t need to shoot this vsl but
you want to just like stay here I’m like
yeah let me just stay in Columbia and
then so we we got here yeah and then you
know we took the reals idea that Stephan
was doing because reals are all about
engagement right and the vssl is no
different it’s how long you can hold
someone’s attention and so we just took
that short form reels and just made it
into longer form and used that kind of
knowledge that he had had and had
developed with working for two years
with some of the biggest names and put
it into vsl production
um and that’s kind of how the company
came about and I needed it for my Brands
you know got four or five bsls kind of
like scaling and you know and then we
started open up to clients my Mastermind
and everyone’s been loving the work um
we’ve got some of the biggest clients in
the industry now and we had some of
probably arguably you know honestly the
best vsls in the business by far because
we can do things that no one else can do
mainly because of stepan’s background
and his education in the kind of Tik Tok
era where you’re competing in you know
against millions and millions of
creators every day and holding some
attention he’s been able to do that and
explode those Brands and those niches
and so when he came to vssl it was just
like for him it’s easy mode because he’s
not competing against anyone else you
know that’s yeah that’s awesome though I
think uh so many people see we are like
in a date of a shortform media and it
might be the downfall of Western
Civilization but it’s definitely
something we’re enjoying consuming as it
all takes us down right um so I love
that you’re bringing that blend to the
vssl world um and kind of creating that
increased engagement which I think leads
to one of the big questions like well
how is that different and what are you
guys seeing right now in a video that’s
really working because I think just give
like a broad spectrum everyone that’s
going on in general there’s been a lot
of video that it seems like it’s in flux
maybe what was working before isn’t
working the same and so really exciting
to see what you guys are doing that are
working that’s working right now because
I think a lot of people are maybe in
that um limbo state where they’re
looking for an innovation um because
their offers aren’t converting like they
used to yeah I mean you could speak to
that yeah so I mean the first thing is
you got to take the principle of keeping
people’s attention like that’s the most
important thing that’s why video is so
popular like over 99% of the internet is
video now for a reason because people
don’t read as much I mean I don’t know
last time you guys read a book I haven’t
read a book in like two years but I’ll
watch like long form videos all listen
to audiobooks stuff that’s more you know
stimulating to the senses right like
video brings that extra level to what’s
being written and what’s being said and
then you got to use that video to keep
people’s attention more so the main
thing we’ve done is apply all the
attention principles of short form
content because that’s like the most
competitive attention medium out there
because it’s just a bunch of random
people putting out the most ridiculous
content out there and if you’re an
educational influencer you’re trying to
teach people stuff in a platform that’s
all about entertainment so you have to
keep people attention talking about
something that’s more boring rather than
something interesting the first thing is
attention and then with that you know we
took that and put it into long form
video as well and like the number one
principle is like
it can’t be boring like the static long
played out starts like if you have a
video and it takes like five minutes to
get going it has a really boring start
not that captivating the music’s Bland
you know the vi visuals aren’t
stimulating people are going to click
off right away it’s like the most
important thing in short form content is
the first three seconds and like in a
vssl like a long form video it is the
the lead the first 3 to five minutes is
the most important because if they don’t
watch that you could have the best last
10 minutes of the video no one’s going
to see that at all so the first five
minutes is like key and the way you keep
that as captivating as possible is you
know combining like rapid changes in
video you want to change something every
two to three seconds to make people
engage you want to have music change you
want to have a sound effect that brings
a story to life like let’s say you know
there’s uh someone like running on a
treadmill you know you add that panting
sound effect there to bring that to life
make people feel it you know you change
the the B- roll the video on screen
every two to three seconds to keep that
novelty there you add text big bold text
to emphasize certain words like let’s
say you’re selling a supplement there’s
like a specific ingredient like in there
that’s like the game change the reason
your supplement sells that’s the one you
want to put bold on screen so people
remember it keeps their attention
captivates them all those little things
yeah and I think one of the big
differences that we’ve kind of done with
C4 now is that because I’ve hired a ton
of vssl editors in the past for my own
stuff and I’ve noticed that the vssl
editors themselves they’re not marketers
like they’re great video guys but
they’re not marketers and that’s kind of
an issue because you need a marketer to
be actually doing the videos because
it’s about holding attention and it’s
about retaining that interest in the
video over 40 50 60 minutes and the only
way to do that is to tap into the
marketing aspect through video not just
having a worldclass cinematic editor
because anyone can go and shoot a
Hollywood film and do all the the lights
and the camera and the action but to
keep someone’s attention while their
phone is buzzing with Instagram Tik Tok
text messages all the time like it’s
very very difficult especially today so
I think it’s about being a video editor
who knows marketing more than just being
a good video editor yeah no that’s great
that kind of answered the other question
I was think was like how do you balance
the right type of attention right
because um there’s probably ways you
keep people watching a video but then
they don’t convert at the end so um
balancing the right emotion to keep
attention and keep gravitating people
towards like you said entertainment when
otherwise information might be boring so
um I don’t know if you could give me
some examples of some things you’ve seen
that didn’t work with an attention
standpoint that you commonly see that
are probably driving people away um
versus maybe something that you could
share recently that was a little maybe a
string of attention getters that you
guys saw really captured um maybe in a
lead or within that first minute or
something like that something that
really uh grabbed people and and had
some great success on your attention
recently I think like the OIC BSL for
sure yeah that one was good I mean the
first first to cover what doesn’t really
work I would say like the standard
whiteboard vsl for any video with just
whiteboard and text on there um that is
dying very quickly especially if you
have a weak spokesperson because all
that’s there is text on screen plus like
audio to keep the person engaged and if
the script isn’t absolutely perfect like
it’s it’s not going to do that well I’ve
discussed this with Peter all the time
and we’re like I’ve seen like this one
one guy I know he did an entire
whiteboard vssl with AI voiceover like
just did it himself and I mean it was
converting but he’s not scaling it and
like the reason he’s not scaling is
because that just won’t Captivate on
such a broad scale of so many people and
such small attention with just that
little whiteboard on screen which is
text it’s not emotionally engaging yeah
I think the thing too we’ve seen it
decline in is actually face to camera to
be honest like having a spokesperson
speak to camera uh the reason being is
that first of all the person that’s like
an actress or an actor for example
that’s speaking or a real doctor they
often don’t have like proper media
training or camera training um the
actors some of them do but the other
thing that they don’t have is proper
vocal training and like as we discussed
before this podcast like when our audio
was garbage a lot of people sit through
a good video but they will never sit
through terrible audio never and it’s
one of the things that we’ve kind of
come to where like people doing the
selfie style where the iPhone camera is
like the mic like you’re not getting the
best audio quality
and so we’ve kind of started to move
away from a lot of that um face to
camera the other Advantage too is that
we can test faster with new leads as a
result so if we’re shooting just b-roll
correct the only thing that we actually
need to test a new lead is a new
voiceover script that’s it we don’t need
someone to shoot the camera we don’t to
re-edit we just need to put in the audio
and swap out the old audio and then go
again um and it makes testing way faster
which at the end of the day that’s kind
of like how you win in this game of VLS
and ads is like how fast can you test
how much can you test how cheap can you
test how often can you test because you
just are one split test away from a
million a month like that is the name of
the game um and so for us it’s about how
can we create an opportunity for the
marketers for our clients for ourselves
to test 10 times faster um without
losing any of the quality you know so
that’s kind of what we come to like once
you have something that’s working there
will you then bring in like a face if
you will and then see if that beats the
b-roll or are you just kind of keep
running with the B- roll the thing with
the b-roll is if you do it right and you
have really high quality Bureau which we
do for almost all of our clients yeah is
you use the bureau to build that Persona
and connection with the spokesperson
like there’s one vssl right now I think
it’s like G over 100 million in sales
one everyone sees now they’re basically
like similar to to vshred on how much
they’re they’re making right now and
they’re literally just with a high
quality spokesperson like voiceover and
then high quality beeroll and you feel
that connection to the to the doctor on
screen it’s like it’s as if like they’re
talking face the camera but they’re not
it tells more of a story too like when
you just see someone talking face the
camera like old school YouTube like hey
uh we’re going to talk about this blah
blah blah you get bored the visuals are
the same it’s hey I’m looking at this
person’s face the whole time rather than
bunch of b-roll cinematic stuff going on
instead yeah and like when you have when
the do like for shooting a doctor for
example in their office which I’ve done
for my dog Brands will’ll fly out to the
vet center and shoot them there there’s
so much Authority created with like our
vet interacting with patients
interacting with dogs feeding them like
the dog treats that we’re selling
there’s just it’s almost unbeatable in
terms of authority pieces versus someone
like talking to camera even if it’s a
professional camera because I mean there
just when you see the social proof
involved and like the doctor in action
their daily lifestyle they’re no longer
just like some random person talking
internet they like are a 3D person who
works in Arizona at the world class
pause Clinic who then helps these dogs
and helped um Jessica who brought in her
dog because she was sick you know
there’s all this Authority pieces that
is very very hard to convey when it’s
just talking to camera okay thank you
that’s helpful for me to picture there
so instead of having them just talking
at the camera you’re actually showing
them in their environment with their
voice over or voiceover kind of so
you’re bringing those story elements
into a visual element as well okay
that’s that’s really interesting thank
you yeah like if we have copy for
example that’s like you know I was
burning the midnight candle and you know
researching pop you know papers and
studying for hours trying to solve this
like cure you know we can shoot them in
the nighttime working on the computer
rubbing their eyes right and it brings
the copy to light instead of just like
them talking to camera in like a
well-lit room right it’s a totally
different cinematic experience gotcha I
wanted to go back you mentioned some
like example time frames like a vs like
40 60 Minutes kind of that kind of thing
with the limited time frame now are you
messing around with or I should say
attention span are you messing around
with any shorter formats are you seeing
those when at all or you kind of
sticking with the longer form video
sales letter when it comes to that
selling mechanism um I still prefer
longer form at the end of the day um I
have seen like higher conversion rates
on shorter form but the aovs go to they
just fall through the ground oh
interesting hard to scale on cold
traffic with a short form vssl without
like a brand um the long form just has
all the elements and for me like they
can range from 30 to 60 Minutes like
some of my dog vsls are about 35 minutes
30 minutes even like 25 minutes some of
the like the other niches I’m in like
they’re closer to 60 and it’s for me
it’s about writing as much copy as
needed and not a single word more and
whatever I think is going to be needed
to convert the customer on cold traffic
um but I have yet to find that short
form beats long form in the vssl cold
traffic acquisition space you know
there’s other spaces like reels and
brand building and Ecom and stuff that
will probably benefit from shorter form
stuff but not on cold traffic
scalability there is one thing we’re
doing like this this’s a little hack any
literally anyone could do like today to
basically like make their long longer
vsl a little bit shorter and a little
bit more attention grabbing you
basically just speed it up by like 10%
maybe 15% depending what sounds good and
now you’re taking all that info all that
amazing copy and visuals and just making
it shorter and a little bit faster paced
to keep people’s attention better rather
than like let’s say it’s a slower voice
over more drawn out you can now speed
that up and keep attention more yeah
because then you could press the copy
the audio doesn’t really change go above
15% it can get a little wonky but you
spe up like a chipmunk a bit yeah yeah
we found about 12% to be the kind of The
Sweet Spot between like speed and not
losing any like of the copy in the audio
I’m sure that depends on too which voice
actor you’re using a bit and their
Cadence right yeah exactly yeah so just
plug in 12% yeah yeah yeah make it work
for you okay that’s really oh go ahead K
oh I was just going to go back to the
original point I just I I really loved
what you guys were talking about that um
it’s not necessarily that it’s using
b-roll but it’s custom b-roll so
customizing the b-roll to then kind of
bridge the gap of authenticity so not
necessarily it’s almost higher quality
b-roll than I think what U people are
using a lot of VLS which I find really
interesting so giving give an idea um if
you give me an idea like how much b-roll
if say you were going out with like the
vet um or maybe it was a doctor um kind
of this is two-parter in general how
much b-roll might you film with him I I
guess it could be script you know
dependent but curious like how much
you’d normally film and then the other
side is being that you’re doing more
b-roll with the individual to show that
that Authority um when and how are you
bringing them on camera in in
introducing the voice um to the audience
or are you just bypassing it as a whole
at this
point so like the amount of eoll we we
plan it out ahead like we we’ve done
like so many shoots and now we just
created like a a m master master shot
list of just like every shot we need so
like we can we get it done fairly
quickly because we know what we need and
the thing is it’s not that you need a
lot you just need the key shots done
correctly like you need the ones where
the person is doing their job they’re
interacting you need the ones where the
person is is think thinking and kind of
in that like struggle moment like they
have the problem they don’t know what to
do they need that moment where they’re
solving the problem they’re they’re
working hard and then they they figure
it out then they’re working with the
formulas a little bit let’s say it’s a
supplement you know figuring out how to
make that supplement Etc when you have
that list it’s just it’s not a lot it’s
about the key key points right yeah we
we Tak
about I mean depends once we find like
the appropriate doctor’s office or
whatever the spokesperson is uh finding
the actor and everything but we can we
can knock out a shoot in like a couple
hours now really fast um especially if
we have products um but yeah it is about
executing on the fundamentals of what
the copy in the story and the copy is
which is just the hero story you know
the doctor comes in has all these
patients is interacting with patients
can’t can’t find the Cure so he’s upset
he’s calling all his patients and you
just get every one of those shots he’s
teaching other experts to create more
Authority he’s working with dogs’s
working with patience and then you know
those emotional inflection points that
you need basically you know exactly what
you need yeah we have a master dock
which we we reserve for our clients
right now we may be Shar one say we
don’t want to we don’t want to take all
your secrets out right do yeah oh Thomas
wants that yeah no that that makes a ton
of sense I really really like that I
think that makes a ton of sense for sure
yeah yeah we can shoot any like any
custom b-roll pretty much on the planet
uh down here in Columbia we have offices
we have pen houses we have like access
to any sort of Avatar or kind of like
typical type of vssl to be honest
whether it’s supplements dating making
money online Lottery like literally
anything like the the the funny thing is
this is like a skill set from my past
because I started like video about four
years ago just like just even filming
video like we didn’t even real like when
we started filming the custom Bureau we
didn’t realize how much advantages we
had
we have like $10,000 worth of camera
equipment lighting everything we need to
make look high quality and I’ve been
trained in that for so long it just like
the camera quality really makes a
difference like yeah if you shoot with
an iPhone it just doesn’t have the same
difference as like a professional camera
for that Boll it’s not even about the
camera it’s about the lens it’s about
like how it’s set up is it on a tripod
is it freehand what angles are you
shooting are you shooting up or down um
to make the P spokesperson look bigger
or smaller um there’s so many
like cinematic elements that come into
play here but the fundamental is the
fact that like it’s a marketing video
project where like we get the key
inflection points from the story through
video instead of just someone talking to
the camera about yeah I was struggling
burning the midnight oil blah blah blah
blah blah instead of he was actually on
the computer in the middle of the night
rubbing his eyes tired you know and
that’s where the marketing element of
the video comes
in no I really like that I like the lot
that’s awesome appreciate that
appreciate as much as the secrets as we
could get at
Thomas is g to ask for more now yeah I
CU with the formatting like we saw I
think you know a few years ago it broke
out with like you know the the giant the
full screen video versus kind of the
embedded then the vertical video for
vssl on mobile versus desktop things
like that like are you messing around
with different formats like what’s
working best for you when you start kind
of looking at how to actually present
the video yeah I mean we just optimize
for like whatever platform it’s on like
if it’s a desktop we keep it you know
full screen Etc then if it’s mobile we
make sure it’s converted to mobile and
it looks good it’s clear it’s easy to
see on iPhone and it just keeps your
attention that way it’s really just
optimizing about what platform it’s on
and then do that yeah there isn’t to
like for me it’s always about testing
like I’ll still test like full screen
versus like little screen on desktop to
be honest just because I’ve seen some
swings recently in like what’s winning
full screen doesn’t always win anymore
not sure why maybe people are just too
used to it now I have no idea but yeah
it day will’ll produce pretty much
anything we needed to test and again it
comes back in just
testing y that makes sense and then when
you look at the ads versus the video
like the vssl you look at like running
like a video ad what are what’s winning
there for y’all right
now um for us like it honestly the ads
are similar to how Stephan used to do
reals which is just keeping engagement
but one of the things that’s been
winning for like at least me on my dog
side and like some of my other um brands
that I have is really like changing the
first two to three seconds of the B rule
in the same ad so we’ll have like
variation one of an ad and it’s working
well we’ll get five new variations with
just different intros same script same
audio just different visuals uh whether
it’s like random stuff like food and
eggs and bacon or it’s like someone
shooting a blowtorch like it doesn’t
really matter what it is it just to
generate attention um and that’s been
working really well for us one one more
thing that I’ve no notice is very
important in that kind of first few
minutes is like you want to basically
convey as much like emotional
information to the Watcher as possible
that’s why in some ads like we end up
using like big bold letters like big
title and then we use kind of a split
screen where it’s like multiple b rolls
together and that kind of gives like
multiple points to look at which gives
more information but then also because
they see those two b rolls if they’re
combined properly makes them feel
something new
right like for for an example let’s say
it’s um it’s for let’s say it’s for a
dating offering and you’re like starting
the ad and basically it’s like has big
bold title and then shows like on the
left happy marriage and then on the
right it’s like heartbreak the the man
is devastated his wife left him and now
it kind of shows like that potential for
the story and people get more Curious
conveys more emotion to what like is
happening yeah or if you have like a
let’s say you have a conversation going
on like in the copy like someone is
texting someone like just show the text
messages in the visuals and like like
text bubbles coming up on screen that
and you have like the pinging sounds
because those pinging sounds are so
ingrained in our dopamine receptors now
that it just like it just it’s instant
attention that’s probably like the
sickest hack we’ve come across is you
ever want to keep someone’s attention
just dopamine just do the the sound yeah
ding that damn ding whether it’s anxiety
or excitement it’s something that you
will immediately pay attention to even
if you choose to ignore it you’ll like
ah crap so that’s awesome or imagine if
you’re it’s like a dating offer having
the Tinder notification sound whatever
that is com from
like that where they’re at so yeah now
um a couple things on the attention
getting though I was thinking about um
so are you seeing so I I love that lots
of times the b-roll could be random like
but do you guys go with like maybe
themes of different b rolls you’ll test
so say like hey I’m really want to go
off like strong curiosity play Let’s
really make like weird stuff or do you
see that maybe if we go and try and gain
attention around say negative emotions
or like you said you have the dopamine
hit thing with the sound and auditory
stuff but um are you seeing maybe is it
is it offer contingent or are you guys
starting to maybe see some Trends in um
or themes around what tends to capture
people’s attention besides obviously the
sound that you just gave I’m trying to
think of some other stuff yeah I mean I
mean when it comes to like let’s say the
supplement space for example the
curiosity is very very popular like this
7c hack and then then you show Boll of
like the hack but you make it something
like completely weird like so people
have never seen before and adds this
kind of like shock curiosity Factor like
whoa like what if I just eat this green
tea and then I sprinkle this little
powder and then like mix it with like a
fork but upside down that’s going to
make me like lose weight faster like
something that like really Spike that
Curiosity really works for like the
supplement space yeah like and so you
said and and they’re spinning with the
fork upside down so you either think
they don’t how how to use utensils or
like what is this cuz like the top of
the fork it like destroys the powder so
like you need to use that like bottom of
the fork it just makes it better yeah
like the thing is doesn’t to make sense
sometimes yeah it just has to create so
much curiosity that you’re like WTF but
like let me learn more well gosh have
you seen there’s that I know he’s all
over this different reals platforms the
rage bait guy who just yeah drags on a
three-minute video it’s just nonsense
whether it’s a recipe whether it’s a
magic trick no matter what it is they’re
so good at getting just like you know
what he’s doing but you still watch it
it’s like ah it’s like there something
about this like trend of like people
like cutting food and like doing stuff
like that like preparing food like all
speed ramp like it’s faster people like
cutting apples preparing pineapple
sprinkling salt mixing stuff like I
don’t know just the satisfying feeling
it gives you that just people keep
watching it yeah yeah and then they have
audio over something completely
different right so um yeah I see that
often especially with uh like people
speed running it’s like a Roblox game or
some Minecraft and they have a totally
different thing going on in the audio so
uh that’s what interesting interesting
gaming is a good industry to like study
because those guys have a ton of money
to burn on ads and so I’ll study like
like Clash of Clans if you watch their
ads like they’re so hilarious it’s like
someone in like an ice bath and then it
switches to Clash of Clans you’re like
what the hell or like a f a blowtorch I
saw one but like they know what they’re
doing and so we just rip from them we’re
not like Geniuses we just know how to
copy better than everyone else I think W
that’s super smart though that’s a and
you’re right that’s a great example
those guys that they’re doing to get
downloads it is impressive and they
always have really good ads for sure
yeah where do you not not what you saw
at all it’s like like Oh I thought this
was like really cool and then just like
this like taping flash of Clans game
yeah I was curious how you’re to go back
to like the the vssl components now like
when you’re presenting the offer when
the vsl’s gotten to the point where
you’re actually presenting the offer
like are you finding certain ways that
it’s working better now than it used to
or any kind of split testing WIS
there I mean yeah one thing we’re doing
we’re focusing on especially with that
like that last little bit when the offer
is presented Etc is just making sure
it’s very high quality and desirable
like that’s the point where people are
already invested like if someone watched
that point they’re interested they want
to know what it is they want to know
what the product is and like you just
want to make it look as desirable as
possible you want to make the product
look like hey I want to buy this even if
I the person never saw in their life
they want to buy this present in this
high quality way it looks like a million
dooll product and then like just present
it really cleanly really high quality
Boll Etc a few animations and that’s
kind of the the focus we have there to
just make it look really desirable and
that’s where like the custom b-roll
comes in so like if you have like for
example we have our doctor actually
using our supplements like on the dogs
in the videos right versus like just us
showing bottles on screen which is what
every other vssl on the planet does like
I can’t lie my doctor’s actually using
this you know my that in this case and
so that’s where it comes even like we
just it’s so much Authority it’s so much
trust it’s so many so many good selling
elements in just the the hero using the
product on camera not just like an image
of them like smiling like which could be
faked very easily but actually them
using in video in real time the product
and that’s where like it really stands
out yeah that makes a lot of sense when
you look at oh go ahead Thomas you start
you go oh okay I say I love I love that
cuz it it really does mirror a lot of
what you see in standard television
right like what we saw in traditional
media for years and years and years work
for the same demographics you’re most
likely targeting and your in your
supplement vsls it’s amazing how much we
ignore the mediums and the media that
they already love but like whether it’s
like a normal aen on TV or an
infomercial which again very similar
direct response Styles um you bet
somebody with authority actually uses
the product live um on that TV so it
makes a ton of sense to do that for the
reveal so yeah you any infomercial right
just think about infomercials like they
always have the product right there and
the hero is using it on screen in front
of you demonstrating how awesome it is
and so we’re just taking that element
you know infomercials have sold whatever
ridiculous amount of money like
proactive alone was a billion dollar Pro
like program itself the ShamWow the slap
what’s that one the slap one slap slap
Slap
Chop yeah I mean if if the customer if
the hero is using it why wouldn’t I use
it why would I give it a try especially
there’s a 60-day money back guarantee
blah blah blah you know yeah exactly so
and it’s easy for toonster products like
a Slap Chop but same with the
supplements if it’s just as much as them
taking it giving it to a dog giving it
to a patient right showing them like hey
here you go I’m handing you the bottle
it signifies something um that matters I
just again it’s it’s an element we don’t
see that often um in vsls but we see
everywhere else in traditional media so
I think it’s just really great you guys
bring light in like you said you might
not re you reinvent the wheel but you
sure know how to copy the best looking
ones so better than other so so it’s
super smart love that yeah then there’s
one more thing like with The Boll that
like really adds that level of like
movie quality to it and really hooks
people in more is like even with Dr Boll
like when they’re using the product
they’re not breaking the fourth wall
like they’re not communicating with the
camera saying hey I’m doing this I’m use
gonna give it to the dog now no they’re
just kind of doing it and that adds that
level of like hey I’m the Watcher and
this is just them living their life
they’re not sh sh me anything yeah
they’re not trying to sell me right
they’re just like using the product as
normal maybe you should try it too and
give me $5,000 in the process you know
you bring up a great point I’d love to
talk about that a little bit more
because I do find it very interesting is
um you mentioned the concept of where
the audience is is during the video
right so oftentimes we don’t think about
if we’re filming this am I a watcher or
am I a participant right so that could
change based on the way that you film it
um so so you guys kind of talked to that
if like how do you change certain shots
based on where you want the audience to
be placed like for example podcasts know
that if you’re doing like a like
something like this we want people to
feel a part of a conversation not
listening to a conversation right so I’m
not outside in there they want to feel
like they’re a part of it having with us
so you change the way you do things
right so um what are some ways that you
guys are maybe capturing um the location
or where do you want the audience to
feel like they are during
I realized I was making my air quotes
out of the video too so people could see
that so the the first thing with like if
you want do to be more of a spectator if
you’re like or if you want some be to
break the fourth wall it also kind of
depends on like the vibe of the video
like if you look at all these series
videos like think about any like romance
movie that’s really sad or like any like
super really serious movie like any um
what’s it Chris Christopher Nolan movie
all serious the characters never ever
break the fourth wall and it builds that
story builds that seriousness builds
that tension because they’re not like
they’re it’s never broken but if you
look at Deadpool which is like a comedy
100% he’s always like pauses pauses the
movie and then start talking to the
audience directly and adds this kind of
humor this more like kind of breaks
attention kind of casual type of video
so depends on like where we are in the
vssl like if it’s more serious point we
don’t want to break the fourth wall but
if it’s more like a casual or funnier
point you can break it and then like for
like camera angles and stuff like we do
like more we do like close-up angles and
we do wider angles wider angles are
great for showcasing the location like
where it is give more info kind of like
a setup shot but then the closer angles
add that extra like emotion makes you
feel like you’re right there like let’s
say it’s a close-up like over the
shoulder shot of like a doctor talking
to a patient really serious you feel
like you’re right there you feel like
you’re seeing that conversation happen
because it like looks so realistic add
that like realism
El it really channels the time that your
doctor told you why do you keep eating
sugar and I was like damn it it tastes
good he’s like but so do your feet and
I’m like they’ll keep them I was like ah
wheelchairs will help me get to Sugar
faster imagine that shop it’s like like
super wide and you see all this info you
see nurses going everything like that
wouldn’t add that same emotion that same
feel because like when you’re being told
by your doctor yeah stop eating sugar
it’s not like a it’s a closeup not like
a super wide one right so you kind of
want to yeah about what would that shot
be like in real life what would they
feel what would they see then let’s use
that type of shot yeah we want to see
their disappointment right up close
right
I was curious what on the client side of
things when you’re working with clients
versus your own in-house offers are
there certain challenges that arise um
in building out these video elements for
them and is there like I guess the
question here is if I’m looking to work
with someone like you how can I be the
best client for y’all so you can produce
the best content for
me um I think the biggest thing is
mostly like hands off and trusting us
you know I’ve got like close to like
nine figures and sales in my belt so
from a marketing standpoint like we know
what we’re doing Stefan is getting close
to that point uh fairly quickly I think
like the our clients that that we love
and the clients we hate the difference
is that the clients that we love give us
the script and then they just are like
I’ll wait till the video’s done and
we’re good to go they just like they
trust us to do our job um and I mean I
wouldn’t have Stefan on the team and
like wouldn’t have this company with him
if I didn’t trust him to do all my own
stuff in house like he does all the
stuff like the the most recent video
that he produced for me for my dog brand
is like 380 per row as day zero on cold
traffic right now like it’s very B it’s
not bad you know
like not bad at all I’ll take it yeah
and the whole point is that it’s because
we take this whole video production to
another level because at the end of the
day people are used to kind of the
Netflix Style YouTube quality now 4K HD
all that and when you don’t deliver a
vssl or ad in that manner people get
lost their dopamine isn’t activated as
much and the result they’re not paying
attention which is the name of the game
in marketing really and like one more
thing that like the best clients do
versus ones that we have more like Road
bumps with is like when they give us the
script and they give us like the
directions like they have their stuff
ready they know exactly what they need
and they let us do our job like if if
let’s say the product name now has to be
changed three times because they messed
up in the script or like they don’t have
testimonials ready or like the the
doctor’s name is wrong or he’s like from
China when he’s supposed to be from
Canada like it’s like that stuff slows
the production process down and makes us
have to adjust little details that if
they were ready from the start would
speed up Production Way faster and make
it such an easier process for everyone
because we know speed is King I mean it
still comes down to testing right and
one of the things that we’ve been able
to do now with the agency and like
building of the team is that we can do
vsls if we need to we can do vsls in
like 12 days full production b-roll
everything like
weeks in and outs you know Stephan hates
when I say that out loud but that’s we
can I was waiting to look at Stephan’s
face to see like did he just die a
little as soon as pet my stress levels
are never higher than when Peter’s like
hey can we get this done in like six
days and I’m like
bro so need to
sleep I don’t know what can we and
should we yeah I don’t know what
everyone else does in the nbsl like
whoever else is producing them but I
know that the huge unfair competition
that we have is that when we can vsls in
two weeks instead of four or six or
whatever else the timelines are it means
we can test twice three four times as
fast which ultimately we win then it’s
impossible to fail at that point which
ultimately is kind of the question like
how do we make an impossible fail to
scale on cold traffic well we test five
times faster that’s really on the
testing side there like how do you work
with the copy team on the testing side
like are you getting different hooks to
test are you coming up with your own
hooks are you just purely doing the
video like how does that relationship
work with the copy and the video
elements um so for clients it’s usually
us is producing the video and working
with the the cooperator that wrote the
script to produce new leads for the most
part or new intros um as well as
sometimes new closes depending on like
the copyright of the owner etc for the
in-house stuff for me it’s testing
everything new leads new scripts I mean
the recent one that I wrote was
basically 10 variations between two
closes five leads and like two body
copies um so yeah it really depends who
you’re working
with gotcha so it is a collaborative and
I was curious
like when is the right time to approach
a company like C4 media it’s like okay
I’ve got the copy it’s getting written
like at what point should I be chatting
with yall and going does this make sense
to work with y’all or is there is there
too soon of a point is there too late
where it’s like oh now we’re kind of
behind things when’s that ideal phase
still naming your product obviously not
then which names I think as long as you
know what your offer is we can start
having a conversation because let’s say
it’s a supplement offer in like the
dental health space for example you know
if you know that’s going to come out in
like eight weeks like tell us we’ll be
able to like go reserve a dental office
start finding doctors and stuff to help
you out ahead of time and that speeds up
the entire process um and then once the
copy’s done it’s just like it’s game
time on our end there is no not really a
wrong time really you know we’ve had
clients come to us after they produce vs
sales other guys and come have us revise
them um so there’s different levels and
different types of services that we do
offer depending on what your needs are
but I haven’t seen a bad time to come
give me money personally you know so so
basically the right time is do you want
an award like do you want a cold traffic
monster vssl if you want one and you
don’t have one right now you should be
talked into C4 media that that’s really
what I’m hearing from you pretty much
yeah if you wants to add scales we work
with like I’m pretty sure if it’s not
number one on
ClickBank it’s about to be we have one
of the top like offers on ClickBank for
our clients right now all produce yeah
yeah I know you guys are doing good work
and then yeah because we set you up with
the ClickBank experts program we’ll put
that link to that profile and the show
notes here um so people can find you
through that if they want to but where
else can people follow you two
individually and or C4 media yeah um we
have our website we can link that in the
description uh you can go there that’s
probably the easiest way to connect with
us for professional work and then I have
my Instagram you know Stefan vanica just
my first name yeah I’m on Instagram you
can check out my blog beat your
control.com that’s probably like my best
place to like get a hold of me my emails
on there um yeah
awesome thank you and then any yeah I
guess I always like to give a little
teaser at the end here if there’s any
other juicy hacks you haven’t shared
that you’d love to like what is
something that people are looking they
let me ask you this someone right now
with a video sales letter on their page
what’s the first thing they should do
after listening to this to run a split
test I mean hire Stephan get him to
produce lead and run it again you can
run the same lead head-to-head with
Stefan’s video creativity versus your
current video editor and I’m like I’m
very I’m 100% confident he’s gonna win
so 10 out of 10 times yeah I mean he’s
not wrong so you definitely do that well
I love because you said one of the
biggest tests that you guys do was
literally just not changing the script
but just running the running it with new
b-roll so yeah it seems like again if
you have a video and you’re like I think
it should be doing better
they should be talking to you guys so
we’re we’re all I just don’t know
any yeah I don’t know any other video
editors they’re also marketers and
that’s kind of like that was my biggest
pet peeve for a long time um and without
the marketing brain side of things you
become this Hollywood cinematic
production which is really cool and it
looks fancy and the client’s super happy
but it doesn’t convert and all that
numbers is how much money the vssl is
going to produce at the end of the day
like is it going to make money are
people going to buy the product yes or
no and that comes down to video infused
with a marketing brain not just video
cinematic production yeah because when
you produce video with a direct response
you know mindset I mean I I studied
direct response for I’ve been studying
it for like four or five years or so
right around when I started video
because I’m like huh I’m starting video
but I also want to make money with video
so let me study direct response so then
like you pick up a few things that like
are a little bit like you wouldn’t see
in a Hollywood movie because they they
have you hooked because you already paid
to watch the movie like in a vsl no one
paid to do anything they’re not
committed at all so like you have do a
bunch of little things to spike their
attention and make things so obvious and
so clear because like the biggest issue
with copy or anything is if something’s
confusing and if the video is confusing
like people are going to click off and
no one’s goingon to watch you got to
make it extremely clear and you know
simple to understand yep Clarity
improves conversions across the board
both cinematically and copy wise and so
that’s kind of what we aim to do with
all the videos I’ve produced very for my
own stuff in house or for our
clients for sure no I love that Clarity
improves conversions that that is
definitely Dylan snip that because
that’s a brilliant line for sure um and
and I think with supplements it’s one of
the biggest mistakes I see people make
nowadays they they focus on a really
dramatic lead and they’re like oh this
is great and then you get to their
mechanism I’m like I’m confused um by
what your product actually does and how
you explain it right it’s just so
convoluted who would ever buy that so
and you’ll see those drop offs right
there the video where all a sudden your
watch rate just falls off a cliff so no
that that’s super powerful guys and I
love that it’s pretty much anyone that
has a vssl should be talking to you um
right now or if they have one coming up
they should be talking to you here soon
because it’ll get better if they workes
ads you know Stefan does content for me
I don’t know if he wants to do for
anyone else but you know he’s grown like
my dog brand like from Zer to 35,000
followers in like three months or so all
organically using his real same style of
vssl but all just short form stuff um
and if you ask him nicely he might do it
for you I
don’t question nicely nicely with a
large stack of bills that always helps
will you do my Instagram for me
Noe J on top we have a we have a strict
approval process for that one so me it
depends the person has to be the right
fit Etc because that’s a lot it’s a lot
harder than the people think it is to
grow yeah brand on social media
organically it depends on the person
I’ll do it look how he politely said no
to you Thomas it was really impressive
not to make you feel bad but they’re
like I can’t watch your
[Laughter]
videos awesome guys well um yeah really
appreciate your time this is this is
fantastic I always love talking about
video and hearing what you guys are
doing and seeing it I know I have a
couple clients that are working with you
guys and um excited to see their videos
and watch them scale it up so be on the
lookout for um great videos from C4
awesome thanks guys yeah thanks for
joining everybody and don’t forget you
can email Affiliated clickbank.com if
you have any feedback if you like get in
touch we’ll leave the links in the
description below you can follow me at
happy scaling on Instagram Tik Tok all
those fun places Kyle I think you have a
new Instagram handle don’t you or is
someone copying you on
Instagram now someone’s probably copying
me you should follow them though they’ll
probably produce more content than me
and sell you something so yes you could
be un not followed by me or accepted if
you look out for me on Instagram pretty
socially stupid but definitely um follow
the ClickBank channel for the most
relevant content that I’ll be producing
that you want to watch so that’d be good
until next time guys have a good one see
you guys and whether you tell people
Thomas happy scaling see everybody happy
scaling there you go all right see you
guys bye
